Athletic Business - New Construction or Renovation Projects - Expanding a gym - Messages

Message from QandA

Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:49:48 GMT

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Harry, Marketing
Litra USA, New Jersey

Message from QandA

Wed, 27 May 2009 08:12:12 GMT

If you and or the community don't need the outside space for outdoor sports then you could enclose the entire space through standard construction, or use a bubble or pre-fab type building. The surface I assume is asphalt, and our company has done some jobs on asphalt. Asphalt needs some special preperation but you can put a vinyl or linoleum surface on top of ashpalt, using a moisture barrier. The space must be climate controlled.

Alan White, Sales
Mats Inc., MA

Message from QandA

Tue, 26 May 2009 09:00:27 GMT

Coach Carlson, To turn your outside court spaces into interior gym spaces would require the following: 1. Long-span steel joists will be the most economical roof structure. These can clear span over gym spaces. 25 feet above the floor is a standard clear height. 2. The most economical roofing material is EPDM roof with stone ballast. 3. The roof structure will need bearing wall support. Existing walls may have been designed to support another roof but if not there are alternate ways of providing bearing support for the roof structure. Concrete block is the wall material of choice because of it's durability. 4. Flooring: You would want to take up what is on the ground now and put in a 4" thick concrete floor. Then there are several options for flooring, vinyl composition tile being the lowest cost, urethane, rubber, composites, and wood flooring. 5. We would want to connect the new gym space with existing hallways or locker rooms. The gym would need to have code required fire exits also. 6. Natural light can be added through translucent fiberglass panels at new walls or roof systems. 7. Lighting: Go with a fluorescent 6-lamp high-output fixture with a cage. 8. By code, the space will need to be heated , and ventilated using mechancial equipment. The lowest cost equipment usually will be roof mounted. Hope this helps! I would be happy to meet with you to look at the gym site and discuss more of the details. Kevin

Kevin Busch, Principal Architect
Busch Architects, Inc., Minnesota

Message from QandA

Thu, 21 May 2009 09:28:51 GMT

Regarding Bleachers: Most gym expansions involved reusing the existing bleachers to save capital. If you are expanding your gymnasium, be sure to consider gross seating capacity and how the new facility will be utilized in respect to the bleachers and the spectators. Moving existing bleachers is important to work into the logistics of the build.

Roger BeuBR Bleachers, IL

Message from QandA

Thu, 21 May 2009 09:05:49 GMT

Hello Philip. Good question. Yes, there are excellent products available for your basketball court if you are looking to build it outdoors, as well as handsome, pre-fabricated enclosures. Here are 360 Architecture, we pride ourselves on our unique sports design solutions and would be happy to talk more about your project. Best regards, James

James C. Braam, Project Designer
360 Architecture, Missouri

Message from QandA

Thu, 21 May 2009 08:55:54 GMT

Philip, I believe that we can supply what you are looking for. We just recently finished a project covering an area that has a full size basketball court, a volleyball court, as well as a rock climbing wall and a performance stage. http://www.ufsinc.com/" target="_blank">www.ufsinc.com, 800-634-8368

Jeff Bowman, Marketing Manager
Universal Fabric Structures, Inc., PA

Message from QandA

Thu, 21 May 2009 06:53:38 GMT

Hire a reputable architect in your area. Architects are the only professionals that will consider all of your concerns; codes, environmental conditions, (drainable floor tile used in Florida won't drain to well in Minnesota in January!), structural issues, exiting and other safety issues, construction scheduling and costs to name a few. You will get what you pay for. Do you look for the cheapest doctor, attorney or accountant when seeking that type of advice?

Kirk Delzer, AIA, Director of Architecture
Integrated Design Solutions, Michigan

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 20:39:58 GMT

Converting an outside courtyard into a full blown gymnasium is a bit more involved than closing in the deck or patio on a house. You should get in touch with a licensed structural/architectural designer who can help you navigate (pun intended) through the myriad of factors including electrical, plumbing, HVAC, roof drainage and snow loading, site drainage, fastening to the existing building(s). Then there are all of the details associated with preparing plans for bidding and building the addition. If you don't execute the planning phase of the project properly there is a old saying, "Act in haste, repent in leisure."

Howard BrickmanBrickman Consulting,

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 14:36:59 GMT

Phil - A critical question is wrt the existing court base - asphalt or concrete? A sprung type structure could be built over the existing BB court(s). If your school district has an architect on retainer, that would be stop one. If not, I would recommend contacting a reputable GC in your area, and also contacting the Robbins dealer as well, in order to explore the options. Sincerely, Dean A. Smith 813.830.1602

Dean Smith

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 13:14:45 GMT

Anything is possible in solving this this problem. The height of the roof is critical especially in a gymnasium environment, so if it is to raise the roof so to speak, there may need to be on support columns and exterior structure to hold up an elevated roof system. If the roof is at the same height for example, a two story roof, and height isn't as critical, possibly the exterior walls can support your new roof. Too many variables to determine without seeing it and analyzing existing walls and structure. As of the inside floor, after pouring the new slab on grade within the four walls, it can be set up to be recessed enough for a wood floor on sleeper system or for a more economical approach use of a monolithic rubber system is the choice. Many other issues come to mind though, such a windows that look into the courtyard space now, and how they will be treated or protected, and if there is a requirement for exterior day lighting of those rooms adjacent to the courtyard. What about interior finishing of the new gym space, will the existing walls need to be clad in a protective type material for the gym activities and protection for the users?

Don Reszel, SEnior Associate
Cooper Carry, GA

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 12:44:42 GMT

Take a look at Gym In a Box. Depending on your local, you might get away with a metal building or a simple metal roof.

Don Webb, Supervisor III
Hesperia Rec & Park, Ca

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 12:40:46 GMT

Coach Carlson, I can't speak intelligently about the foundation and adding walls, ceiling deck, etc. One problem you may run into is how to keep the kids cool and the heat down in this space. I would be willing to speak with you about our fans which we put into gyms on a weekly basis. My phone number is 859-977-1353 if you want to discuss. Good luck with your project. If you want to send me your e-mail address i can send over pictures of our fans in gyms. Barrett Clayton

Barrett Clayton, Education Market Specialist
Big Ass Fans, Ky

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 12:38:17 GMT

2 suggestions – This first one can be developed with a smaller budget as the progress is done in increments. Viewpoint High School in Calabasas, Ca. had an outdoor basketball court with bleachers at just one end line (I think 5-6 tier). Year one they put the first part of the plan in place with block walls and openings/structure to later add rollup doors (2 on each endline and 2 or 3 on each sideline. With the shell in place they added a metal roof (not sure of composition). They used this for a couple of years. Yes, the volleyballs and basketballs went flying out into the rain, and they learned to station students at the openings when games were in progress. When money came in they added a real gym floor and the roll-up doors). They have since added acoustics to deaden the sound and made improvements to the ceiling. They are planning a new school/athletic facility development for the future. http://www.viewpoint.org/" target="_blank">www.viewpoint.org

This second suggestion is the use of a tent over a cement base/wood floor surface. During the Northridge, CA earthquake, many schools were damaged and not usable. Alemany High School in Mission Hills, CA erected a temporary gym using a tent concept. This was used for a number of years until enough funds could be raised to build a new school/gym. www.alemany.org 11111 N Alemany Drive Mission Hills, CA 91345 - (818) 365-3925

Joanne Venditto, volleyball referee
Southern Calif Volleyball Officials Association, CA

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 12:10:43 GMT

With nice weather here we install the Sport Court PowerGame Surface on an asphalt or concrete "playground" and convert it into what we call an outdoor gymnasium. Similar peformance surface to a suspended hardwood floor. Add some bleachers and nice outdoor hoop systems and tada.....an outdoor gym. Those who like some protection from the elements will do a canopy or carport structure which is open on 3 or 4 sides. No HVAC, lighting, plumbing, etc, needed. Oh yeah, you are in Minnesota..... home prices are reasonable now in California and we are looking for some good teachers, administrators, and coaches?

Dale Hendrickson, Owner
Sport Court of Southern California, California

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 12:07:37 GMT

many companies have an outdoor snap together tile that drains through that we use outdoor in Florida. Good luck with your adventure

lyn a watson, sales rep
centaur sports, fl

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 12:03:50 GMT

On a smaller scale, we added a roof to enclose an space at our athletic club. While smaller, the principal is the same. Your limitations will be how far to the interior of your existing building is the space? Can it be reached with a local crane? Most structures that have an interior courtyard concept have wall that already bear the weight of the existing roof structure. If you have the original plans, an engineer could review the specs to see how much load could be put on the existing walls to support the weight of the new roof. To lessen the load, you can probably install all of your HVAC on the roof of the existing building. Flooring would depend on how and what you want to use the new space for. Ballpark figure would be $7-10 s.f.

neal simpson, general manager
roundup athletic club, oregon

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 11:56:19 GMT

Dear Mr. Carson, We are an operable roof and skylight company. Our product might be ideally suited for the project you describe. If your courts are surrounded by existing structures, an operable roof or skylight could be supported by them. Please check our website and let me know if we can be of assistance to you in any way. Douglas Roberts. http://www.rollamatic.com/" target="_blank">www.rollamatic.com

Douglas Roberts, President
Rollamatic Roofs Inc., California

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 11:00:03 GMT

Your first call(s) needs to be to a local architect and engineer; they’ll be able to tell you if adding a roof is feasible, practical and a rough cost estimate. Once you find out if it can be done and within budget, seek out a sport facility consultant to work with you and the architect and engineer. From my experience architects and engineers can be limited in their ideas/designs based upon their prior experience with sport facilities. Sport venues have unique and specific requirements for planning the activity space, ancillary areas, and floor surface, therefore sport consultants are invaluable. There are countless options available, but given your locale and budget constraints you may really need to be creative. Important areas that cannot be compromised are in the facility design and construction as any risk to your students and community is unacceptable.

Glenn Steimling, Assistant Director
UCCS, CO

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:50:08 GMT

Hi Philip, There are several questions that come to mind before even thinking about the various material options out there. You state that the basketball courts are bounded by other school buildings. This raises potential code questions as to the minimum clearances between buildings and the maximum allowable area of any one building should this new structure be attached to one or more existing structures. Second, there's the question of budget. How much money do you have to spend? You can put up a relatively inexpensive structure with steel roof trusses and use a built-up tar or asphalt roof; or even a tensile roof covering. Then there's the more expensive and exciting retractable roofs which allow fresh air circulation, lower HVAC useage and utility costs or even an environmentally sensitive "green living" roof. From there you have the same type of questions regarding the flooring system. There's concrete, synthetic materials, wood, or bamboo. It all depends on your budget, life expectancy, use and aesthetics. My suggestion to you would be to find a qualified archtitect that has done gymnasiums in the past with whom you can share your budget and existing campus layout and discuss all of your options. I think this will save you money and headaches in the long run. -Ritch J. Voss, AIA, LEED-AP

Ritch Voss, Sr. Assoc.-Sr. Arch
Dahlin Group Architects, CA

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:39:11 GMT

There are many areas of concern here: Do the existing walls, or structure, have enough extra bearing to support the new roof? How do the exisitng roofs drain, and will the drainage have to be accommodated? The exisitng courtyards are probably there to bring light and natural ventalation into the spaces adjacent to the courtyards. How will this be handled once the courtyards are roofed over? Are there spaces that exit through the courtyards that cannot exit through another enclosed space? The State of Minnesota may mandate that all school building work have an architect or engineer involved in all building projects. Your first action might be to find a qualified design professional to evaluate the feasibility of your suggestion.

Martha Green, Architect
Walker Architects, Iowa

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:37:39 GMT

Your situation sounds like a perfect fit for our building system. Sprung structures has been able to help educational institutions with an innovative buildings alternative, designed and engineered to provide cost effective solution for multifunctional gymnasium space.

Terry Formentera, Sales Manager
Sprung Instant Structures, Inc., CA

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:31:05 GMT

Philip, It all depends on what you need to achieve. Are you looking for a full Gymnasium,a health club expansions, etc. fully conditioned and protected from the Elements? how high is the current building? If so, it may be possible to use the existing exterior walls as the roof support. Obviously, the least expensive option would probably be long span metal joists, with a metal deck roof structure. I am assuming when you said courtyard that these spaces are walled in. Please keep in mind that you would need to bring power and lighting, as well as HVAC of some kind. There are excellent green options and opportunities to a project like this, such as natural ventilation and solar panels on the new roof. there are also life safety issues for getting people in and out safely, as well as potential zoning issues for parking etc.. There really are a number of ways to go with this, and the best way to weigh your options is to bring in an architectural professional to work through your specific resources and variables. The short answer is yes, it is possible, but there is no easy answer as to how without knowing more information. Rudy Fabiano, AIA, Architect Fabiano Designs ph.973.746.5100 fx. 973.746.5103 http://www.fabianodesigns.com/" target="_blank">www.fabianodesigns.com Smart Designs Inspiring Lifestyle Experiences

Rudy Fabiano, Architect
Fabiano Designs

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:28:06 GMT

I would recommend approaching the problem of an enclosed courtyard (multi-use) play area with two significantly different solutions in mind:1) Solution 1 - If play is desired 12-months a year, and the structural features around the perimeter of the courtyard (including HVAC) permit, I would look at a teflon or canvas materials using air pressure and and blower fans. The real-life case study is the Pontiac Silverdome, which is still standing today. This would permit any number of flooring solutions, from poured or layed products, to sport court, even wood. The key being, standing up to your snow loads in your environment.

You will also have to consider additional heating and cooling and the capabilities of the current system to be enhanced for the additional loads for the larger enclosed spaces.2) Solution 2- If play could be confined to a 9 month schedule (except Dec./Jan./Feb)- do not provide a roof at all. Provide an all-weather surface (concrete or asphalt) with a radiate type system underneath for melting snow and ice. Sport court can be placed on top of the concrete and is a great Volleyball surface also.

If the courtyard is not enclosed on all four sides and/or an emergency egress exists, create a path for high capacity snow removal equipment to clean the area and remove snow. It would not be totally out of the question to intentially design this space to permit ice skating 3 months a year (courtyard-Rockefeller Ctr. in NY). This would be an enhancement to the lower cost original plan but might really be nice in your area where Ice Hockey and Skating are viable. I would consider several above ground high capacity blowers (football sidelines) to be able to melt snow. The lower cost solution is #2. The option to enhance and move to solution #1 is not lost after demand is established and you are bursting at the seams. -Mike Stodola616-893-7314

Michael Stodola, Director - Student Center
Davenport University, Michigan

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:21:00 GMT

http://www.nnparks.com/sports_facilities_midtown.php

The above link goes to Newport News, Va Parks and Recreation Dept. Midtown Recreation Center's site. Their outdoor pavilion (which I have visited) is covered and has two basketball courts. I don't recall the roof material, but it may be beneficial to contact them for a recommendation (for or against what they have). Good luck!

Donna Hill

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:18:05 GMT

Phillip, I would contact local metal building manufacturers or erectors. We are an athletic equipment supplier and have done a few open-air type facilities with several different manufacturers. There are usually a few listed in Athletic Business, a quick call to one should put you in touch with a local area representative. Obviously you would want a structural engineer involved, and an architect as well to make sure you tie into your existing building correctly. As far as the court goes I would look at Sport Court or a similar multi-sport type product. With this type of surface you could use the area for basketball, volleyball, in-line skating (hockey), really all types of sports. Good Luck with your project. David K. Covington, VP/COO M. Michael Elkis Co., Inc. Greensboro, NC

David Covington, VP/COO
M. Michael Elkis Co., Inc., NC

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:12:05 GMT

You do not mention what type of surface is there now so I am guessing either blacktop or concrete. There are many floors that will work over either of these. Depending on the ventilation used either concrete or blacktop can be leveled using latex levelers and the floors installed over it. As for the roof a qualified structural engineer would need to be consulted for the options available in your area.

Jim Cornelius, Facility Supervisor
West Chester Area School District, PA

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:08:51 GMT

You could look into enclosing this space with a structure that is offered from Sprung (of Allentown, PA) or an enclose that is something of the like, perhaps an air bubble. A synthetic resilient sports floor, such as Taraflex or Mondo would be a good alternative as these systems do not require heating or cooling and offer high levels of safety. Further, Taraflex and Mondo offer a loose lay and high moisture underlayment which could allow to overlay asphalt or an alternative that may be cheaper then concrete.

Eric Lussier, PA Regional Manager
Advantage Sport USA, Inc., PA

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 10:08:44 GMT

We are in the process of planning to enclose a courtyard too. OUr problem is the roof line - too many pitches. We spoke with architects last week and are awaiting a plan. Since going through this planning process, we spoke with 4 architects. They all recommended going with the wood floors. The bounce is more natural and the life length is longer if kept up. The expense is most likely greater initially, but will pay for itself. We have the Mondo flooring on our track and aerobics room and it wears well too, but the bounce/sound just isn't as natural.

Kelly, Health Promotion Director
Bearskin Healthcare & Wellness Center, OK

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 09:54:31 GMT

Philip, we do enclosures like this a lot. We covered BMO soccer field on a seasonal basis in Toronto. We also have permanent installations covering swimming pools or tennis courts. Thanks, Joe

Joe Large, Business Development
Arizon Structures, IN

Message from QandA

Wed, 20 May 2009 09:46:18 GMT

I remember working Don Lane's basketball camps at Transylvania (KY) University for many years. For parts of two seasons, while the old gym was being torn down to be replaced by a new one, they practiced in an inflatable bubble. They purchased the Miami Heat's old floor and baskets for $30,000, which wasn't a bad price. The only real drawbacks were temperature control. In the winter, they had a hard time getting the temperature out of the 50's on really cold days. It could be almost unbearable in the summer; even with air conditioning blasting the temperature in the dome would still be in the 80's on really hot days. But, the floor was excellent and I thought it was a good bargain for the money spent.

Dave Arnold, Boys' Basketball Coach
Whitmore Lake High School, MI

Message from QandA

Tue, 05 May 2009 13:55:39 GMT

Might be able to help, would need to see existing area. Is proposed area surrounded by existing buildings now.? Check our web site and contact me and see. I'll let you know yes/no as soon as possible, won't keep you hanging. Joe

Joe Large, Business Development/Sales
Arizon Structures, MO

Message from QandA

Sun, 29 Mar 2009 22:17:15 GMT

We are in need of more gym space. We have two unused outdoor-court-yard type spaces (each is large enough for a full court of basketball and then some) that are built within the borders of the school building itself. I have been trying to find a company to get info back about this. Is it possible and feasable to put up a quality roof of some kind, and then what kind of floors are out there for this type of project? Money is an issue but we have not even really looked into this. This could be a great project for a very innovative company, and also a chance for a company to get excellent exposure for a unique project getting involved in improving a public high school facility.

Philip Carlson, Math Teacher/Head Boys Basketball Coach
Paynesville Area High School, MN