Sports Business Lawyer Brian Schoenborn
How did you develop your hockey IQ?
I knew about the sport of hockey. I skated as a kid but didn’t have a chance to play hockey. Then, when St. Cloud State was going to Division I hockey, I was introduced to the coach who took over for Herb Brooks — Craig Dahl — one of my closest friends. Craig sat me down after I got out of law school and said, “Hey, Brian, I have a business idea for you.” And it was the United States Hockey League.
What was your involvement with the St. Cloud State athletic department while you were still an undergraduate student?
I was the student president and then the head of something called Minnesota Students United. I was very involved in the athletic department, selling sports passes and student tickets. I got to know the athletic director very well — Morris Kurtz, at the time — and then got very involved with the hockey program and Craig Dahl because of my involvement with the athletic department, and the fact that it was launching Division I hockey — the one Division I sport St. Cloud State had.
Was sports business always a point of interest for you as a law student and lawyer?
I’m a business guy who happens to be a lawyer. I don’t think businesspeople wake up in the morning and think, “I can’t wait to talk to my lawyer,” unless they’re in jail. Businesspeople want to talk to businesspeople, not lawyers. Very different. I’m a very different lawyer. I’m a businessperson. I own businesses, operate businesses. I do it, and as a result, a lot of my clients appreciate the fact that I add value differently and am much more able to help them accomplish their goals — and prevent problems rather than just solving problems.
Has business ownership always been in your plans?
I’ve always been fairly entrepreneurial. Even as a child, I was entrepreneurial. Craig knew that about me, and when I got out of law school and decided to move back to St. Cloud, where I grew up, he sat me down and told me about the United States Hockey League as a business. I knew that he got his players from there, but I thought, “Isn’t that fanbase just moms and dads and girlfriends?” I didn’t quite understand the business. And he said, “No, Brian. Go to Iowa. Go to Nebraska. It’s a professional presentation with amateur expenses. It’s like a nightclub with a hockey game going on, and it’s a party, okay?” And so I did that, and I became a sponge. I realized, wow, this is a really good business. I looked at the footprint of the USHL and said, “What’s the best town that didn’t have a team that’s in the footprint of the league and closest to St. Cloud?” — because I wasn’t going to move — and it was Sioux Falls. I started working on putting a USHL team in Sioux Falls, built some partnerships, pulled people together. We dropped the puck in ’99, but it started, really, in 1996.
What had to happen before you were up and running?
We had to do a major renovation of the Sioux Falls Arena, which was a basketball arena, to allow hockey to be played there. There wasn’t a hockey rink in Sioux Falls. We had to get a practice facility approved. That’s the thing about hockey — it’s not just where you’re going to play, it’s where you’re going to practice. With basketball, there’s always a gym. There are a million gyms in nontraditional hockey towns, but they don’t have a recreational ice sheet. If you’re going to play in a multipurpose venue that has concerts and other things going on, you can’t practice there. So where are you going to practice? And there are plenty of great towns out there that would love to have hockey but can’t because they don’t have a place to practice. We had to solve that problem, and it took a number of years to do that.
How well did a converted basketball arena serve ice hockey?
There were almost no seats on the lower level. Because an ice sheet is larger than a basketball court, everyone had to sit upstairs. For hockey games, the seats were pushed back so that the rink could be in there. And the rink was nowhere near a regulation-size rink. It was probably 20 feet too short and 15 feet too narrow. But that was the best we could do. We went 18 years in a building that was really a basketball arena, not a hockey arena, until we got the Denny Sanford PREMIER Center built.
What came after the arena renovation?
Then we had to ramp up the hiring of our business folks and our hockey people a full year in advance so they could build a team — a whole year of scouting and recruiting without having a game. We dropped the puck in the fall of 1999 and just had incredible success right out of the gate.
Your penetration in the world of hockey grew from there?
That became my calling card. People started calling from all over the place, saying, “Are you that guy who did the Sioux Falls Stampede?” All of a sudden, I was doing NHL deals and, you name it, all sorts of sports. But it started with hockey. I do more hockey-related legal work than anybody in the country.
Do you actively advertise this specialty?
I don’t. You know, anything you do, when you’re deep enough in it as a specialist, you’re kind of by yourself. There are very few business lawyers who are businesspeople, and very few business lawyers who are sports business lawyers. Most people who are lawyers haven’t really ever done it. They just tell other people what to do, kind of like going to a travel advisor for advice, but that travel advisor has never been on a plane. It’s a little hard to give advice if you’ve never done it. The old rule of education is, when you hear something, you forget it. When you see something, you remember it. When you experience something, you understand it. So doing it is where the magic happens.
What’s the secret to sports ownership success?
I have some strong perspectives on what it takes to be successful in sports. It’s market, venue, lease and then execution. The hard part is finding a great town, getting a great venue developed — it’s not easy or cheap — and then a lot of people miss the fact that if you don’t have a great lease, you’re not going to be able to make it. That’s oftentimes where lawyers get involved — in the facility development or the lease. Through that, I’ve ended up building career-long relationships with sports advisors, sports architectural firms, sports facility contractors and facility consulting groups.
A lot of sports agents, for example, have law degrees. They just don’t practice law. Do you actually practice law for the people seeking sports ownership?
If someone calls saying, “Brian, I need help buying the Colorado Avalanche,” I could help them, because that’s what I do. And oftentimes they want me to help them with their widget factory at the end of the day, because they see that I have a different approach to helping people, which is much more value-focused. I want to help them be successful, not just get the deal done. I’m providing business advice, not just legal advice. I do some estate planning because I work with a lot of high-net-worth family businesses. I’m helping keep their business in the family, not necessarily sports business, but most sports teams are owned by high-net-worth families. I’m working with families that have a lot going on, and sometimes they own sports teams.
As of last summer, the NCAA began allowing players from the three Canadian major junior hockey leagues to play collegiately in the United States. Do you think that’s a good thing?
Oh, yeah. I think it is. I’m concerned about the number of players that are losing development opportunities, so there still needs to be work done on that front, but I do think it’s a good thing. I think young people make decisions early, before they really are able to make the best possible decision. I think keeping opportunities available to young people is a good thing, but I also worry about NIL, where young people are focused on money instead of developing. They certainly deserve money in certain situations, but I also don’t want to shortcut the rest of their life and them becoming the best people they can be. So, the idea that major junior players from Canada are NCAA eligible, I mean, I think that’s great. And I actually think it helps United States hockey — and the United States Hockey League — a lot, because the USHL becomes the major junior league in the United States. There’s a lot more opportunity in the United States. From coast to coast, you’ll see an enormous amount of expansion and elevation of the United States Hockey League. The best years of the United States Hockey League are ahead of it, and they’re going to come very quickly because of what’s going on in the sport of hockey right now. With major junior eligibility, it just it takes the USHL to the next level, because the major junior leagues operate a little bit in the United States, but they aren’t able to expand in the United States, and so the United States Hockey League becomes the league that will elevate itself and provide even more opportunities for young Americans, with some other people from other countries sprinkled in. But for the most part, young Americans interested in being the best they can be in the sport of hockey will end up involved in the United States Hockey League ladder of development and have more opportunities. I think it’s great.
Do you know what percentage of USHL players play collegiately?
Oh, man. I’d say like 98% or more of USHL players played Division I college hockey. In the old days, you went to the USHL to get a college scholarship. Now you go to the USHL if you have a college scholarship. It’s a different league.
How about the USHL pipeline to the NHL?
Last year, I think, we had almost 60 players from the USHL drafted in the NHL Draft. More players in the NHL Draft are taken from the USHL than any other league, including the Canadian major junior league.
That represents a flipping of the script, doesn’t it?
If you go to Sioux Falls, for instance, and you look at the development opportunity for players — even coaches and referees — it is at the pinnacle. There is no better. I will put it up against any major junior team in Canada in terms of the full development opportunity, facilities, leadership development, corporate partners, fan base. I don’t think anyone could argue that there’s another junior hockey team in North America that is beyond the Sioux Falls Stampede. I truly believe that.
In the ’80s, when American phenom Pat LaFontaine opted to play in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League because he just didn’t feel like the U.S. collegiate schedule offered enough ice time, that was big news back then. You’re saying it’s come full circle.
NHL first-round draft picks and overall number-one picks, many of them in the last decade, are Americans, or they came out of the United States Hockey League and they became the overall number-one pick. But the number of Americans being drafted at all levels of the NHL Draft is off the charts. America is doing an incredible job developing athletes in the sport of hockey as players and as people.
Having worked in a collegiate athletic department and being as involved as you have been in the development of collegiate and professional talent, what do you make of the changes in collegiate sports and the erosion of the NCAA’s amateurism model from a legal perspective? After all, it was legal challenges to the NCAA’s authority that got us to where we are today, right?
There needs to be opportunities for young people, and I totally believe that NIL, for instance, is a great thing. If you develop your reputation and your skills — you’re the next Caitlin Clark and State Farm wants to hire you to be aligned with your brand and have you be their pitch person on TV — you deserve that. Any player, I don’t care what age, if you have done that much in your sport, and you have the right kind of personality and impact and social media presence and all that, you should absolutely be able to capitalize on those things. Why wouldn’t you? So, I think that’s all great. The idea that they weren’t allowed to do that — you couldn’t sell an autograph — is just crazy.
What about the transfer portal?
Transferring is important, but I think it’s gotten out of hand. You have players who are transferring multiple times a year. There are some players who have literally gone full circle and come back to the team that they started on. At that point in life, are you really getting the development opportunity, really getting the education that’s going to take you through the rest of your life? They aren’t going through the wonderful development process and learning in the classroom with their friends. I think it’s hard moving around. It’s hard to grow any kind of roots, and I think it’s hard to maintain a following.
What do you think about the idea of allowing each athlete to transfer once during their entire college career?
I would go a little different. I would say you have to stay two years. When you commit to a place, you have to stay two years, because you have to go through the valley a little bit. That’s how you grow up and develop. And those hard times end up being the best times. When you look at anybody in any walk of life, you don’t like the hard times, but you look back and go, “Thank God for that. It made me a better person.” You decide to go to a school, you have to stay two years — your freshman and sophomore years. After that, you have one transfer, if you choose. And then if you graduate from that institution that you transferred to, you can transfer again. If you ended up graduating before you were out of eligibility, you’d have the right to transfer a second time. So, you can’t transfer nonstop. You could transfer two times during your college career, but only once before you graduate.
What about your unconventional career path have you found most rewarding?
I love the entrepreneurial journey. I love collaborating with great people. It’s a lot of fun to be with great people to accomplish things. I love taking ideas and making them real. You know, people don’t cheer for most businesses, and sports actually bring joy to people in the community. There are a lot of sad and negative things in our world, and to bring happiness and joy and competitive things to people young and old, it’s been wonderful. And when we first got to Sioux Falls, you could drive around for a month and never find a kid with a hockey stick or a puck, and now it’s a hockey town. There are players coming out of Sioux Falls who are playing Division I hockey and playing professional hockey. When we got there in the late ’90s, the entire state of South Dakota really was void of hockey. Now there’s a lot of hockey in South Dakota. Thomas Jefferson said, “As time goes by, you love those most you love first.” My first was Sioux Falls, and I still own Sioux Falls, and I’ve owned others and gotten others started. If I didn’t live in St. Cloud, I’d live in Sioux Falls. I just love the community, and I love the impact that’s been made there, and I’ve stayed very involved with the Stampede and the USHL. I’m on the exec board in the United States Hockey League and an officer of the USHL. And I think I’m technically now the longest-standing junior hockey owner in the history of America. I’m helping to develop three professional soccer teams right now. I’ve done professional pickleball. Football, basketball, minor league baseball, minor league hockey, NHL — you name it, I’m working on it now. But it started with a call by Craig Dahl that introduced me to the United States Hockey League, and I’m still involved with the league 30 years later.
