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When did you get into your own personal fitness?
I started in ’84, when I was 14.
At what point did you think you wanted to make fitness a career for you?
I was in the Navy. When I got out in ’98, I went to become a police officer in my hometown. The internet had just happened and the only supplements store we had in our town was GNC, and I knew that they were selling supplements at 20 percent off once a month. So, I started buying bulk on the internet, and selling my friends cheaper than they can buy it but making enough money to pay for mine, and in 2000 I decided to open a supplement store. Six months after that I expanded, doubled the size. Then I resigned as a police officer and built my first gym.
You built your first gym?
Yeah, I had the first 24-hour electronic-access gym in Arkansas, where I’m from. It was the first one in the state.
That that was your own brand? You weren’t a franchisee?
Right. There were a couple of nice gyms in town. There was one bodybuilding gym, but it was maybe 800 square feet, 30 years old, and I decided I wanted to build a place for bodybuilders to come and slam lights and grunt and yell or whatever they wanted to do. So I built my own.
How many square feet did you build?
The first one was about 1,800 square feet.
Does that mean other gyms followed?
Where I was at, I loved my location, but they put in like a greasy spoon next door. And so that the smell of breakfast was always permeating the wall. I ended up moving to another location. It was about 3,500 square feet. Unfortunately, I got divorced and part of the divorce was liquidating everything, so I got out of the business for a while, got remarried, wanted to do it again, but didn’t have the finances at the time. I moved to Denver after my second divorce, and I started looking again, and then met my wife here, and she was really supportive, and I was going to build my own like I’d done before, but I found the UFC GYM. It was a really good price, and coincidentally I had gotten a free pass to go check it out about two months before, and I loved the vibe. I’d never done a fighting gym, but it just intrigued me, it was great price, I decided to pull the trigger. That was about three years ago June.
You got a pass to go to a UFC GYM, then discovered that this particular location was for sale?
Yeah. It wasn’t advertising as such. There was a broker that had a bunch of gyms for sale. And this was after COVID, so a lot of the gyms were hurting. There were a couple of Anytime Fitnesses. We actually looked at a building and considered buying the building and putting my own spin in there, but the parking wasn’t right. It was kind of weird part of town. And, like I say, when I went into UFC GYM, I was like, “This is a great concept.” It’s the only gym I’ve ever been to where you walk in, it’s your first time, and they treated you like family. Members spoke to me. Staff spoke to me. I loved it. I fell in love with it. When I bought it, I put in some more weight equipment and some other improvements.
When you align with a brand, are you obligated to follow its format?
This location was one of four in the Denver area. All the others went under, and this one was losing money when I bought it. We are one of the four independently owned UFC GYMS. We’re a franchise, and I have to give a kickback to them, but because we’re small… When I went to corporate headquarters, we visited five gyms that were over 50,000 square feet, like mega UFC GYMS in California. I’m about 5500 square feet, so the gym when I bought it had been there nine years. Literally nobody from corporate had ever been to it, visited, done anything. They didn’t keep an eye on it. You have to provide the classes they want. They just don’t keep a big eye on you. The improvements I did, I don’t know why they would have a problem. I didn’t ask, I just did them. To this day, they’ve come out one time, just because they were passing through. We’re just small potatoes compared to the other ones.
Do you have to offer some sort of Ultimate Fighting Championship training regimen there?
They have their classes, they have the class names, but ultimately I have a third of my gym which is extremely well-equipped with fitness equipment, so you can come in and work out on weights. A third of the facility is heavy bags — we have 28 100-pound heavy backs where you do boxing and kickboxing classes. And we have a boxing ring and an octagon area where they do jujitsu. They spar.
Does the UFC brand bring with it a certain perception?
Here’s a problem I faced. Getting the word out that it’s not a bunch of fighters with cauliflower ears and tattoos, and that’s all who comes there. The people who come and I get to join, they’re blown away. They’re like, “I just thought this was a fighting gym where everybody’s beating the crap out each other.” My coaches are fighters, but it’s really just for the layperson to train with the intensity of the UFC athlete, and I think that’s an amazing concept.
Before your medical episode, what was a typical workout for you?
I competed in 2002 and 2003, and then I fractured my back, and I had to take about six years off, and then started making a comeback. But what I do, I don’t recommend for other people. I mean, I train heavy — you know, three hours a session, six days a week. That’s not something that I recommend, but it really works for me. And especially at my age, you just do what works.
What motivated you to return to competition?
After I fractured my back, I had no real desire to do it again. But after my medical episode, I decided to do things that were uncomfortable or set a harder goal, because you never know how much longer I’m going to be able to do this. Hopefully, another 20 years. People are really encouraging me to compete, so I’m going to give it one more shot.
Have your workouts changed significantly since your episode?
Actually, not at all. When it happened, I ended up in the hospital. I was in ICU for three days. I took the rest of the week off and then exactly a week later, I went back and finished the workout. Put my headphones on. It was the same song that I died to, finished it, and because I haven’t taken a week off in probably 10 years, I actually came back stronger. I’m actually training a little more intensely now, believe it or not.
That is the opposite of what I expected you to say.
When I did come back, for 30 days I wore what’s called a life vest. It’s almost like a bra that you wear and it’s got a battery pack. And if my heart stopped, it would essentially shock me back. I did that as a precaution, but it kind of rubbed me raw and drove me crazy, so I just wore it for 30 days to make my family happy. But I haven’t had an incident since. My intensity, if anything, is more, because I want to do this forever and I want to keep improving. So, I could live in fear and quit. But, to be honest with you, when I fractured my back, I lost my whole identity, because that’s how everybody knew me. I lost about 60 pounds. And I don’t want to go back to that. I’ve already experienced that. So, I’m just going to push and push, and try to be as safe as I can.
Walk me through what it was like to — as you put it — die.
I don’t usually take Thursday off, so I was really coming back, and I was really going to hit it really hard. I’m going to tell you, I take 10 milligrams of Cialis for blood flow and vascularity. I’ve been taking that pre-workout since I was, I don’t know, 16 years old, in one form or another. What had happened that week, my script had run out for the 10 milligram Cialis. I was going to have it in a week, but I didn’t want to do without. I had bought some in Mexico years before, so it was like probably four years old. I didn’t remember the milligrams, and so I’d been taking that for about a week. Turns out it was 100 milligrams. Earlier in the week, I had two incidences. Both times I had finished doing abs. I stood up and I flexed my abs kind of in the mirror for just a split second, and I started to get tunnel vision like I was going pass out. That had happened two times earlier that week. So, I’d been on the 100 milligrams not knowing it for a full week. And because I wanted to make up for Thursday, and I was going to hit it extra hard, I actually took more pre-workout than I’d ever taken before, which was really stupid. When I went to work out, I was on my second exercise. I’d been going about 45 minutes. I just essentially maxed out on military press. I do what’s called a pyramid. I do a set of 21, a set of 18, 15, all the way down to 10, and then I go back in the other direction as I take weight off. So, I was on a lighter weight. Nothing felt out of the ordinary, but I was extremely winded. My pace was a little faster than normal, because the gym was the fullest I’d ever seen it, and I was trying to be considerate of others, to get off the machine. When I stood up, I pulled one of the plates off. I set it down. I leaned over on the machine to catch my breath, because I was winded, because I had just lifted really heavy. And I do that all the time. That’s kind of my standard pose. Well, after that, I don’t remember anything. The next thing you know, I wake up in the ambulance when they were jamming and IO [intraosseous infusion] into my leg bone. You know that is?
No. What’s an IO?
It’s extremely painful. It’s basically an IV that goes straight in your bone marrow, so you get it quick. On TikTok, I saw a military guy that was conscious when they did it, and you’ve never seen somebody in so much pain. I was talking to a firefighter today at the gym where it happened, and he was he was like, “I can’t believe they gave you an IO, but I do know why it pulled you out.” So basically, I woke up in the ambulance, with no recollection of anything. All I remember is getting tunnel vision, like I did two times earlier in the week. Last thing I remember is telling myself, “Don’t pass out in front of all these people.” Next thing you know, I wake up in the ambulance, which was in essence about 20-25 minutes later, when they jam that IO. It was the most pain I’ve ever felt. Once it’s in, it didn’t hurt as bad, and I told the guys, “Oh, man, I can’t believe they called an ambulance. I’m just out of breath.” And the guy’s like, “No, my friend. You died. It took three shocks to get you back.” And that just didn’t make any sense to me. I’m like, “Somebody made a mistake. They may have shocked me, but there’s no way my heart stopped. And he goes, “Those things won’t shock you unless you need it. It took three times.”
What do you remember about the episode itself?
Basically, I woke up in the ambulance, with no recollection of anything. All I remember is getting tunnel vision, like I did two times earlier in the week. Last thing I remember is telling myself, “Don’t pass out in front of all these people.” Next thing you know, I wake up in the ambulance, which was in essence about 20-25 minutes later. I told the guys, “Oh, man, I can’t believe they called an ambulance. I’m just out of breath.” And the guy’s like, “No, my friend. You died. It took three shocks to get you back.” And that just didn’t make any sense to me. I’m like, “Somebody made a mistake. They may have shocked me, but there’s no way my heart stopped. And he goes, “Those things won’t shock you unless you need it. It took three times.”
How did this change your perspective as a gym operator and a person?
I’m the luckiest person alive. If this would have happened in my facility, I’d be dead. We retrained my staff, so all my staff are CPR current. We have an AED now. But, yeah, I actually have a little bit of remorse because the TikTok video’s got seven and a half million views. And the messages that I get from people, I was never aware that so many people have died in the gym. And it’s hundreds of people who have reached out who had similar situations, except their family members didn’t make it, because nobody did CPR. They didn’t know how to use an AED, even though it’s simple. So, I really feel compelled to spread the word on the importance of all that. I have to acknowledge that I’m grateful that I’m still here. I’m grateful for the people who were put in the path to save me. I’m grateful for the AED. It changed my personality. You know, I’m trying to pull myself back to the side where I don’t focus on the negative. It’s helped everything in my life tremendously.
You mentioned the security video, which went viral. People who have seen it have reached out to you. How do you feel about that?
This video has had such an impact on so many people. A lot of them are just saying, “Thank you for sharing your story.” I bet you there’s half a million likes in the comments. I bet you there’s a thousand people who are now certified because of that video, and it’s pretty amazing. But you know, every time I watch the video, I see more stuff. You’ll see people praying in the background. It actually changed my opinion of people. To see 50 People come and want to help somebody who’s never acknowledged them, it just is really changed my opinion on people and it made me realize most people are not bad. I feel passionate about it. I went and I thanked every one of them that I could identify personally. You want to tell them how big of an impact that made on not just my life, but my family and all that. It’s a little bit awkward, but what I found is now, instead of putting my head down and not looking, I talk to everybody. I enjoy it. It doesn’t interfere with my workout. It completely changed my whole outlook on humanity. It really did. I can understand why people would look at me prior and think, “Oh, that guy thinks he’s…” whatever, and not understand that it’s just a training and a focus. But they still came to my aid, and the people in the background praying, to me, that had as much impact as the CPR. It just showed me that people care about other humans, and it’s wonderful.
Did you have any knowledge of AED technology, or had you ever considered investing in AED technology at your own gym prior to your episode?
Never crossed my mind. Never knew that was a thing. Just ignorance. In my in the gym that I own, our oldest members like 76. We actually give out a free class for Parkinson’s disease patients. And, you know, I am so upset that I had no idea how important these are to have, or I would have had one. My wife, literally within 30 minutes of being at the hospital and hearing the story, went and ordered an AED for our gym.
Are you aware that other gyms have been influenced by your story?
One of my really good friends — we had a falling out, and I haven’t talked to him since probably 2003 — heard my story on Facebook, and they contacted me, and his wife said, “Hey, we have a gym in Arkansas now, and I just wanted to let you know that because of your story, we’re getting an AED.” Again, it makes me feel less guilty, because you never know who that will save. I just think people don’t realize — even after it happened to me, I didn’t realize how often this happens. And when I think of an AED, I think of like, “Maybe he’s ready to put the two paddles on and go, ‘Clear!’ ” It’s not that. It’s really user-friendly. It does all the work. If there’s any high school or any sports facility or any gym that doesn’t have one — it should be a law. I mean, it really should, because it’s a small investment, and if it saves one person like it saved me, it’s well worth it.
